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<  Old Guesthouse  ~  Meat Market Tips (lookin for some)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:59 pm
Posts: 13Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:45 pm
Alright, I have like 6 million meat

The only way it seems i can make meat is by selling one of my Mr. As, but I wanted to buy another from the mall to trade in for a golden mr a - but im 14, and I really cant spare any more money (ive already donated $60 - sold one [a long time ago - but i used my meat for charity] and the other was for a friend, so i have 4)... mr a market is weird - i sold my Mr. A a few weeks ago for 28 mil, now they are only 16-18

anyways my point was, I know lots of the WH23 guys, especially Boozer =), have pretty decent amounts of meat, and I was wonderin how u got it

im aware that Boozer gets lots of the rare or 'not yet in game' items, and probably has the spare money to donate and sell mr as

if u do have any tips for what i should sell or save, lemme know

note: im savin all my crimbo stuff (stocking, pressies, dreidl, etc) just incase, like last year, the stuff ends up selling for tons more later on (like wrappin paper + crimbo duds)

but yea if u have any tips plz share em with me =)

btw Boozer I live off yur extra-spicy bloody mary prices - i always buy my daily 7 :D

(feel free to contact me on AIM if u want, just lemme know who u are)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:47 pm
Posts: 11Location: OregonJoined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:08 am
The thing with the crimbo pressies..

Last year, at Crimbo, there were roughly 30,000 users.

This year, at Crimbo, there were roughly 350,000 users.

Last year, at Crimbo, the market was fairly stable/getting pricier.

This year, at Crimbo, the market is going down fast.



So, even if the Crimbo items go up, which I'm sure they will, it won't be by too much, as meat value is going down, and theres plenty of Crimbo items for everyone at the moment.

The items that will go up most :

Crimbo Stocking
Extra Special Crimbo Stocking
Hanukkimbo Dreidl
Bow
Small Crimbo Pressie

Because those items, are 1 time use. You use them, and they're gone.



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:01 pm
Posts: 363Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:09 pm
Well there were really only around 130k accounts at Christmas, so there's your max - plus some of those with stockings will be deleted because of inactivity. Who knows what that really leaves us with as a total.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 2Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:46 am
also many of those players play independent of the Mall and chat so what they have won't reach the market. that will account for a few hundred at least.


I think how valuable Crimbo will be will depend on how fast the game continues to grow and the rate at which the distribution of crimbo items becomes skewed toward the rich.

given the 51 billionaires and amount of meat in economy and sign ups remaining pretty healthy i reckon this will happen quite quickly. in a few months we'd notice their value increasing markedly relative to other rares.

this happened before last year. do we know exactly how many crimbo costumes boozerbear (and other rich players) had in their stash? if he didn't dupe them, he had a lot because he bought more than he needed for himself.

though there is a huge volume of new crimbo items today something similar will happen by next crimbo.

all Crimbo items will be rare again due to sheer number of new players and the fact during the year they increasingly will fall into the hands of wealthy collectors in greater numbers.

the collectors will essentially take them off the market, bump up the value, and make them inaccessible to new players - assuming the game continues to attract them.

for this reason I'd also consider tiny plastic swords a very good long term investment for the smaller buyer. even though there are many thousands and they're re-useable they're needed for the best drink. The only worry I have is whether Jick will have second thoughts about them or makes an even better drink.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:01 pm
Posts: 13Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:45 pm
if i get the famiiar of the month - will those sell for alot in later months

ex, if i get the orphan baby yeti will it sell in a few months for lots of meat?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:26 pm
Ruthless LeaderPosts: 413Location: Fairhope, ALJoined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:49 pm
It depends on how long you're willing to hold onto it.

You're paying a Mr. A (which can become many things) for something static that is limited in it's availability.

In theory, you should see a return on your investment, but in reality it's hard to determine.

To get an idea, try looking at Jills, Turkeys, and Crimbo Elfs, and their value in the mall relative to a Mr. A, and you'll get a vague idea of how they will work.

It would likely make more sense to spend your 16 Million on something that will appreciate in value faster, or be more of a sure thing.

Crimbo items will be worth a lot this spring, most likely. However, you have to realize that with a constant deflation, you might end up taking a loss no matter what. In addition, as soon as Ascension is implemented, the market will likely go berserk for a while, until all the issues are worked out with exactly how it works.

basically... to make meat, you need to stay in /trade as much as possible, have agents listening for you in other channels, keep track of items in the mall, limit your markets to consumables and high-end glamour items, and be prepared to do a lot of work. If you've only got a few million, start small... you want your meat to be liquid, and you'll need to dump stock at a small loss with quickness if you see a market tanking... if you're clever, you'll sell at a small loss at the start of a dive, then rebuy at the bottom, hold your stock until the upswing, and make a kiling.

But you have to *pay attention* and really work, otherwise, you'll lose everything.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:06 pm
Posts: 363Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:09 pm
Something to keep in mind re: baby yetis - most people seem to think they're fairly worthless as familiars. Good for those who like to collect and good for those who find them "cute" or "funny." But may not ever be as valuable as some of the other FOTM.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:54 pm
Posts: 218Location: Cape Town, South Africa (where God smoked a doobie on the eigth day)Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:35 am
Hello all

There was a really good thread in the Asymetric forums (yes, it happens, on a rare occasion) regarding this. The two main posts, I'll repost here:

Scyld wrote:
Scyld's big fun guide full of tips on playing the market, and getting rich:

Early in the morning to early afternoon (Eastern US Time for me), items are at their cheapest as people make the most and most have adventured already. This is especially true in food/drink items. Throughout the day, more and more people buy and eat food, with less and less still making them, plus more people playing the market later in the day. Prices start low in the morning and go up until rollover, this is almost always true.
Even when prices are sinking below your shop, if it's not even close to what you would pay in the morning, don't buy it. Prices fluctuate, don't spend every last bit of your meat trying to keep your shop the lowest. Rather, wait until the next morning, get more at the cheapest prices so you can afford to lower your prices without losing profit.

When buying out people/Gathering lots of items, generally the first instinct is to pay almost all of what you have until you run out, and have raised the price, then sell higher, but still the lowest or low in the mall. If you're waiting to be bought out, don't buy limits, they look bad in the search results for people collecting items, I myself simply skip over limit shops sometimes. Besides not using limits, don't spend ALL of what you're planning to invest, save some in case other oppurtunities present themselves, example: You selling 50 of (Some food or something) at 50,000. (No Limit). Somebody else has 3 of the same item selling at 5k-20k while you're browsing to check your investments. If you have no money now, you just lost a good profit; if you saved some, here's a good time to spend.

Thirdly, Know when to cut your losses, and know when to stop buying. Often the reason people lose meat is due to buying items at bad times, then the prices drops very low, and doesn't come back up. Even if you've been playing the market with that item for a while, this can happen. Say you make 2 million meat off a very nice run with a certain booze in the mall. The prices continue going up. The back of your head says "hmm. Maybe I could make even more." Then you spend all of your money when the prices are their highest, and are left penniless, and the market goes through it's natural deflation of prices. Wow, you're boned. Bad choice, back of your head. Want to not do that anymore? When the prices are high, never never buy. That sounded cheesy because it rhymed, but it's true. If you just made 2 million meat, take the meat and wait for the prices to drop again. Say you bought even when you thought it was a good time, now somebody has 1,000 of the item with a limit 1-3 per day. Great! Your business is gone. That sucks, but think about cutting your loss before it gets worse. Say you have 8 million and you'd lose 1 million from this. (This scale is just an example, I know some people have loads more or lots less). Are the prices going to go up soon? Not likely, that guy will force other people to go low, and if you stay high now, you won't sell those things for days, maybe a few weeks. Don't go lower then the limit shop, but make sure you are at least visible within the first 5, preferably 2 or 3, and sell unlimited. People will pay higher if they can get more, almost always. (Living proof of this in the trade channel, ramen can be bought for 666-2600 in the mall, some pay 10,000 a piece for them in bulk). Cutting a loss and moving on can be healthy.

So far we've covered: When to buy, and when not to buy; How to save just enough so that in an emergency you don't lose it all; and When to admit defeat. There's only a few tips left. I've learned most of these from my own mistakes. Here's a major one:

Don't mess with items when they first come out, it almost always results in a loss. Stuff is really overinflated when it first comes out, the prices take a while to settle. I know it's quite tempting to go buy out rum the first day it was there and mess around with that, but eventually people get enough that it's too common to go that high, and you don't want to be caught with 50 bottles of rum bought at twice the normal price to sell in the now low-priced market. I lost about 3 million meat trying a very similar thing with an item a week ago, and ended up getting as much as I'd spent yesterday with items from the new dungeon. It's been tested, buying out new items doesn't work well. I bought a Killer Bee yesterday, probably not a smart choice, but I was playing safe in case they went away like the spectral pickle factory (never got quite over selling away dills and stuff for 1,000-2,000 a piece). I lost a good 1mil that way, because it was risky. If the huge > sign went away tomorrow, believe me it would've been worth it. Look at the ghost pickles and you'll see. But most of the time, new items are a bad thing to invest in. Stable market = good profit.

Now I leave you with 1 closing tip. Don't spend so much time getting caught up in stuff you lose sight of the fun in the game. Playing the market can be fun, but if you get all tangled up in it, it's not any fun anymore, and you can lose more then you went in with. Thanks for your time, hope you find my guide useful. :D



And now for my post ;-)

(Well, how did you think I knew how to find it?)

The bits in italics were added by me now

ShadowsLight wrote:
Greetings

Scyld: What you just said was pure gold. They are lessons I have had to learn the hard way. And today was one of the scariest days I have ever spent on KoL. And I followed every tactic you outlined (I only read your post now, but they are my own tactics as well), and managed to get out not only with my shirt, but a Crimbo Hat as well.

Let me go through what happened:


After hitting about level 12, I stopped adventuring and started hanging out at the shore (I had the Big Ship trophy on the day they came out). I used to make my money by selling the stuff I found (20 pound Baby Gravy Fairy, with Empathy and Phat Loot... yeah baby) at the lowest current mall price, but since only 2 of the items I now regularly found were worth anything, to make enough money to fund my shore addiction I had to get into some stock manipulation. I manupulated the following markets:

Sonar-in-a-biscuit: 44 meat
Toast: 50 Meat
Meat Vortex: 105 Meat
30669 scrolls: 200 Meat

But I used to make the most money by buying out low priced 334 scrolls, and reselling them for 1 meat lower than the normal sell price (at the time, that was 6000 meat).

I was easily making 100000 meat a day with this tactic. I also made some extra money by employing players to farm both 334 scrolls and Dyspepsi Colas for me.

Then the Bugs hit....

Days after the bugs hit, I was able to change my tactics a little. It became obvious to me that the stores with limits were actually helping to drive UP the price of the 334 scrolls. The reason is that there is NO LIMIT to the number of 334 scrolls you can use in one day. So, unlike food or drink, where you can set a limit at the number you can consume a day, limits on stores selling 334 scrolls are just irritating to players who want to use a lot. So, I was able to get the price up to around 12000 meat each.

After the bugs hit, with Boozer and lect's really cheap Roll In The Hays, the Dydpepsi-Cola market was dead. Then Rum was added, and suddenly there was demand for Dyspepsi Colas again. So I spent a pretty scary day buying up EVERY Dyspepsi Cola I could and upping the price to 2000 meat. I sighed a huge sigh of relief when I was bought out by one of the games big players (Contrickster... thanks, btw).

During this time, one of my friends (Synkronos) had started playing, and he was one of the players I had employed to farm for me. Since he is not an idiot, he soon realised I was paying him nothing for his scrolls, and went into business for himself (it didn't help that I was explaining to some other friends how I made my money on KoL and he was in the same chat channel). Instead of selling me his stash of 40 odd scrolls one day, he opened up a store, and sold them at my price.

So... I bought him out, and bought out everyone else till I set the price at 15000. And I was bought the next day.

Then, the very next day, something else happened unrelated to my 334 stock manipulation (my meat Vortex collection was bought up, out from under me for 666 Meat each by Dapaper). I found that I had done everything in the mall that I could have thought of to do, so I talked to my friend, and "gave" him the 334 market. I had more than enough money to take trips at the shore. So for a few days, I totally left the market.

But I got bored, so I started up my meat Vortex collection again. Believe it or not, it was ALSO bought up (over 2000 meat vortices bought for 666 Meat each... I was making more money off them then when I used to use them, AND when I manipulated the market to the 105 price).

Then, a few days ago, I saw a pair of Crimbo Pants for 900 Million. Now, earlier in the game, I had been gifted with a crimbo hat. I had sold the hat for 850 Million so I could buy a 750 Million pair of Crimbo Pants... but when I went to look for it, it was gone... D'Oh!

I really wanted those pants. So, I only needed about 50 million meat to get me to that price. So:

I bought up every 334 scroll and drove the price up to 90000 Meat. I also bought up the 668 scroll market, and drove the price up to 180000. And waited to be bought up. Now, most people who use a lot of 668 scrolls do it to get on the Drunkedness board. I did not know that one of the random effects one of the new ! potions gave was drunkedness. My friend (Synkronos, again) got up to 255 drunkedness in one day using about 150 potions. The best part about this method is that you don't lose any stat points, you don't end up with millions of papayas and you don't lose any meat. I wish I had known.

So now I was sitting with over 1400 334 scrolls, and over 400 668 scrolls. So I decided to cut my losses, and slowly reset my prices. Eventually they were down to 60000 for the 334 scrolls and 130000 for the 668 scrolls.

And... they were all bought up (by Sealh8r). I took the 120 Million and I am running. I am not going to ever try to manipulate the 334/668 scroll market again. I made my big score, I am happy.

There is just ONE correction I'd like to make to Scyld's awesome post:

During the first day or so of a new area, adventure there like crazy with a 20 pound Baby Gravy Fairy, with Empathy and Phat Loot. Get as many of the new items as possible and sell them the MOMENT you get them. Don't wait to finish adventuring and then drop them into your store... do it the moment you get them. I managed to sell 1 or 2 killer bees for a million or more. by the time I tried to sell the 4th one, the price was already at 120000. So, adventure in a new area, and sell IMMEDIATELY any of the cool items when people are spending mad meat on getting them.


Also... choose your items CAREFULLY. I made a major mistake with the 334/668 scrolls. Their main attraction was removed the day I made my play. I was very very lucky that I got out of this experience with slightly more money then when I started. I could very easily been left high and dry (and probably drunk, as I was very close to using the scrolls myself).

Anyway...

Hope you learned a thing or two.



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:46 am
Posts: 11Location: OregonJoined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:08 am
Excellence, ShadowsLight. Not only was that a humerous story, but so true :P

8)



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:20 pm
Posts: 13Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:27 pm
I think the fact an equivalent of an Icy peak doesn't exist is still a large factor. To make 1 million meat without making it from another player takes many months and so for this reason prices will never rise much (if at all). Biao's and other rare items will continue to fall under Boozers under cutting and desperate owners wanting to cash in. But with no new source of meat and millions now going to the Hall of legends and other locations prices will still fall.

The best investment is in mafia stuff as with only 13-14 owners undercutting or low selling is unlikely to happen for a long time and post ascension they will be a big status symbol. Think of it like a crimbo present but with less than a handful given (+ they have a use).



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:44 am
Posts: 218Location: Cape Town, South Africa (where God smoked a doobie on the eigth day)Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:35 am
Greetings

Indeed. Also, the Meat Vortices have been kinda nerfed. I collected over 30000 meat vortices. So one day I decided to actually take a few of them out and go to the new Icy Peak (with the restored yetis). For the first 20 or so, they worked exactly as they used to.... after that they ALL gave amounts less than autosale price of the meat vortex.

I used to do the following trick, in the good ol' days before Black Sunday:
I was at a level where the yetis could not touch me because my moxie was high, and, with the right effects on, I was weak enough not to kill them in my first attack. So, I would go to the peak with my Leprechaun, Empathy and a Polka song in my head, attack my first yeti, then keep throwing meat vortices at him (you had to count, because if you had not won the fight by 30 tries, it ends the combat) until I had thrown 29 at it, and then I'd attack it to kill it and get my stats, and large pile of meat at the end of the fight. I could often score around 10000 meat per fight. I'd then go to the orc chasm to farm for 29 more vortices, and if I got them with an adventure left, I would then go back to the peak for another 10000 meat. And then I'd sell the 334 scrolls.

When I got to a level so high that I kept killing the yetis on my first attack regardless of what I tried, I then manipulated the Vortex market and kept their price at a constant 105 meat... I made less meat, but used no adventures.

Good times... good times...

Then I got stuck with hundreds of them when Black Sunday hit, and Jick totally nerfed them to the point where they gave you no meat at all (and just the day before they gave you infinite meat). So I started collecting them... I had 3000 of them at 666 meat each when Dapaper bought them up for "his" collection. So I started collecting them again, and got up to another 2000 when they were bought up again for 1337 each. I made more meat from meat vortices from collectors than I had ever made with them in their intended use.


So yeah... the old "easy" ways are gone...

Best access to large wads of meat these days is finding a rare. Or you need to slog through the mall and play the market like a Shylock.

Or win a RKoL contest... that's another good way.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:20 am
Inhuman ResourcesPosts: 388Location: The MonasteryJoined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 pm
ShadowsLight wrote:
When I got to a level so high that I kept killing the yetis on my first attack regardless of what I tried,...


wussiness potions actually do have a use, you know (:



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:19 pm
Posts: 218Location: Cape Town, South Africa (where God smoked a doobie on the eigth day)Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:35 am
hehehe... I know that NOW...

I had never used a wussiness potion until I used it on a quest... and I only did that quest when I was level 16 or so...

It was actually when I started PvP'ing seriously, and went out and tested every item in the game that to see if it could possibly give me a bonus, that i really discovered it's effect. And then soft green'ed it away almost immediately.

;-)



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 13Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:45 pm
*sigh*

anyone know when Jick n Skully are finishing the lair, or adding in some new quests

im only lvl 15 but ive done practically everything except like 2 or 3 mini quests (like the dolphin kings map, dr hobos map, etc)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 218Location: Cape Town, South Africa (where God smoked a doobie on the eigth day)Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:35 am
Greetings

1) Do the mini quests

2) Do you have all the trophies?

3) Have you tried out PvP?

4) Have you ever had over 100 Million meat (the hard way? No selling a Mr A, or a rare... plain old mall play?)

5) Do you have every single droppable item in the kingdom? Do you have every single non-rare item in the kingdom (ie. all the droppable, and all the make-able items)?

6) Have you collected over 10000 of an item?

7) Have you had one of your ideas implemented into the game?

8) Have you found a rare?

9) Do you have access to the channel that does not exist?

10) Have you complete ALL you in game goals?


There is one thing about this game I have learned as I play it more and more... there is ALWAYS something new to do, or some goal you can give yourself to achieve. You just need to get creative.

My current goals:

1) Get into the top 100 for each stat (muscle is done, moxie is oooh so close, and myst is a little way away)

2) Overtake my ex-clan leader's overall power (everytime I get close, I do something silly and he pulls away again).

3) Get more of my ideas implemented in-game

4) Get my own custom item

5) Get my ass overseas, to Arkenstock, and meet in person a lot of the friends I made on KoL...

See... goals...



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